I do wish the best for Cliff. Once he understands and accepts responsibility for what he did, he’ll find peace.When I first got to Cliff, we got the humble Cliff who wanted to tell his story for free. But he wanted to make money off his story when he got out of prison. He only […]
I do wish the best for Cliff. Once he understands and accepts responsibility for what he did, he’ll find peace.When I first got to Cliff, we got the humble Cliff who wanted to tell his story for free. But he wanted to make money off his story when he got out of prison. He only wanted me to show 30 minutes of his story, and I found out he got another company to pay him for his story.
How would you describe your documentary, ‘Hobby Hustle,’ and what can viewers expect when it is released on February 16?
I wanted to go into the T206 Honus Wagner card more. That was a big one, but I had to cut it out. But the Bill Mastro story (trimming the Honus Wagner) has been told so many times, so when I cut that story, we were getting another angle on it, but it’s nothing you haven’t seen or read somewhere else. Him and I have had it out several times. I showed him the documentary when it was pretty much done, except with the audio mixed in, and he really liked it at first. Then he had his mom see it, which upset her because she didn’t like how they were depicted. They didn’t like that the authorities were in the documentary. I told him I had to get both sides of the story.One thing I’m extremely grateful for is the people who gave me the time, so the least I can do is tell them how the film is going. I told them about the editing. They were the first to find out when the film would be released.
Your documentary takes a look at different aspects of The Hobby. A large focus is on Cliff Panezich, an autograph forger sentenced to prison for fraud. You even interviewed him while he was in jail. What was it like to get so close to him?
Cliff likes to take care of his friends, he likes to take care of his people, and Cliff always protects his mom. She’s a very nice lady, but her past is skewed too. I’d be pissed, too, if I saw something that had my mom in a negative light. Cliff is also very much about instant gratification; he wants to be the center of attention, so anything that makes him look bad, he’s going to go against it. This documentary is about the love for the hobby and about the bad side. You have to go to the shadows sometimes. People can blind themselves knowing they’re getting scammed, but it’s ok because they want that facade. Be very cautious of what you buy and who you buy it from. I’m pretty grateful that he allowed me to get so close. The Cliff I met in jail is different from the Cliff I talked to outside of jail. Him and I really talked a lot before he got out. Cliff was trying to write a book about his experiences, but I don’t know if he still is. He was humble, and he was very open. I wanted to tell his side of the story because I remember when Luke Winn wrote the Sports Illustrated story, which was very law-heavy, taking the bad guy down. And I wanted to get Cliff’s side of the story.
How did making this film change your view of collecting on a personal level?
There are two men named Ray Edwards and Bill Cobb and they were two garbage men. They came across a garage sale, and this couple that knew nothing about cards was selling this T206 Honus Wagner card. They bought it for less than a thousand dollars. They ended up trying to auction it off, but they said Joe Orlando (former PSA President) didn’t want that to go to market because PSA already set the market for T206 Honus Wagners, and to have this one out there would shake things up. The one thing he was mad about was how the legal system brought him down. They thought they didn’t play fair, and he was very angry about that. In prison, he was an open book. When he got out of prison, he started to fall in love with social media. He thought he could make money off social media, and I started to see the ego pick up a little bit more, and I noticed he was a little different. He was two people, one inside prison and another outside. The guards were always around in prison, and one thing they said before we interviewed him was he couldn’t slam the facility or the justice system. Maybe that’s why I got the humble Cliff.I spoke to director Michael Dault (also a published author) about the documentary to learn about the film and his experience producing it out of pocket. His answers give greater context to his movie and the lessons he learned from making it all by himself. The Hobby will get a new movie released on February 16 when the documentary “Hobby Hustle” hits the streaming platforms Apple TV and Amazon.
Have you had any of your subjects reach out to you about the film? Have you stayed in touch with any of them?
Karl Kissner (Black Swamp Find) gave me so much time, and he didn’t have to because he was media fatigued, and he vowed after that he didn’t want to do it anymore. I gave him an early screening of the film, and he appreciated it. I just stayed in contact with him because I have a lot of respect for him. He reminds me of someone in my family with those deep family roots and how it’s family-first with him. On a personal level, I look at it as an addiction. The hobby is an addiction for some people, and some people are so addicted to making money that they’re willing to turn a blind eye to fake items. The hobby changes people, maybe not the casual collector, but some people definitely do. Some people think they can make money off it, and some can, but the hobby can sink its claws on you and not let go.
